Obesity – The Modern Famine

In this episode Dr. Campbell sheds light on obesity from a unique perspective, discussing it as a symptom of modern environmental and lifestyle factors. We are exploring the foundational biochemistry needed for optimal health, the role of stress, the importance of movement, and practical tips on maintaining a nutrient-dense diet. Tune in for an enlightening discussion you won't want to miss!

00:00 Introduction to 9 to 5 Wellness Podcast

00:28 Introducing Today's Topic: Obesity, the Modern Famine

01:24 Meet Dr. Kathy Campbell

02:12 Understanding Obesity as a Symptom

05:26 The Impact of Modern Lifestyles on Health

07:50 The Role of Nutrition in Managing Stress

13:17 Debunking Weight Loss Myths

19:00 The Importance of Movement and Oxygen

23:52 Practical Tips for a Nutrient-Dense Diet

28:57 Conclusion and Where to Find More Information

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Transcript

  Welcome to the nine to five wellness podcast,  a show about corporate wellness solutions with innovators and forward thinking leaders who are at the forefront of the workplace wellness movement.  I'm your host Ayesha 

Tahir. 

 Hello, and welcome to 9 to 5 Wellness Podcast. Today, I am really excited about the topic that we are going to discuss. The topic is obesity, the modern famine. And you know how passionate I am about obesity. And I work with obesity medicine specialists, and I help their patients with exercise programs and nutrition counseling.

So, You know, when I found Dr. Kathy Campbell, who is our guest today, and I'm going to talk about her a little more because she deserves a lot of, , honor here. She has been working on this for a while. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm on board. I really want to talk about this because she has a little bit of a different perspective than what I'm used to.

you know, traditionally we see on obesity and weight gain and weight loss around weight gain and around weight loss. So I'm excited about the conversation today. , our guest, Dr. Kathy Campbell is a community pharmacist in Oklahoma. She offers consultations, seminars, and education, exploring foundational and holistic health approaches.

Her innovative approach to pharmacy includes holistic health practices and meaningful patient interactions.  And today she's going to help us understand obesity through a lens of our environment and modern lifestyles. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Campbell. Thank you, Aisha. I'm thrilled to be here.  Thanks for being here.

I'm so excited,  about the conversation today because I work with a lot of obesity, medicine patients.  I have a certain science backed, evidence based perspective. around obesity and with the experience I've gained over years of working in like the exercise and fitness industry and then now with obesity medicine specialist, but I want to really understand your perspective today, and I want to know why it's You believe obesity is the modern famine and how did this famine begin?

It's a great great intro So I've have a long history studying science and then a personal history with weight and I also have taken care of 32 years of in my community. Uh, and that's four generations. Now my goal for my patients is that they have a great life. And then, you know, I get one of those too.

You get one of those and you get to define that. And so when people come to me with challenges, I'm always looking at what occurred that had that challenge emerge. And with regard to obesity, I see obesity as a symptom. It is a fundamental symptom of the body doing exactly what it's supposed to do to have somebody survive the current environment.

Okay? And when I started assessing that, not only for myself, but also for my patients, it was, the question was, well, what is the body surviving? And that is really the crux of the book and the crux of the TED Talk. It's what if the body is. not have enough of what it needs,  or what if there's toxins, or what if there is a You know, deficiency in oxygen, a deficiency in love and connection.

That all has the body be in a situation where it must triage and prioritize its resources. And what if one of the effects of that is the body doesn't burn fat?  And so when I started looking in that, and then I started coaching patients through that lens, pretty miraculous things happen and I assert the body doesn't have enough of what it needs to function and that the byproduct of that is the obesity. 

Got it.  You could also say the byproduct of that is depression, the byproduct of that is pain, the byproduct, there's a lot of things that in trying to help people get enough of what they need. that it's really remarkable how the pathologies that my traditional pharmacy, uh, profession treats with pharmaceuticals, we could actually minimize the need for pharmaceuticals and have much better function.

And so as I went down that path of helping people with different biochemistries, the foundational biochemistries, it was really remarkable how their total health and function improved and ultimately have that great life with vitality and longevity. Yeah. which is my commitment. 

  Wonderful. So how can we achieve that foundational biochemistry?

How can we go back to it? And where are we losing it? Yes, you touched on a few of the aspects of our modern busy lives, like being just being stressed out for work.  Maybe you're juggling way too many things. Like for me, I mean, I have three boys and I have a business to run, then I have a podcast. All good.

All good. I love doing what I do. But I mean, there is a lot of stress, like a daily day to day stress.  You also mentioned  missing the love and connection. We are living farther from our families,  and,  with the busyness we have, we might not always be socially connected, which we should be, but we are not, but what else? What else is keeping us from that foundational biochemistry, and how can we find it?

It's a cultural impact, you know, because if you go to different cultures around the world, I was recently in Kenya and the African culture and I was in Europe and the European culture. There are different demands placed on us culturally.

There are different, , habits that are there culturally as well. And so I think having an honest look at that, I mean, you, you laid out the very typical cultural demands of a mother in the Western world. And I resemble that too. I totally can relate to that. And one of the difficult concepts I had to really. 

really address, because at my very highest weight  I was running two pharmacies, I had two infants, I had a father who was critically ill, and I was completing my doctorate. And so a friend of mine actually said, that's too much. And so there is this concept that,  is not woven in.  To mom's worlds or even different generational worlds, which is the concept of too much.

We have to actually have a realistic thing. There are times that the demands that we place on ourselves are more than our physical bodies can handle. And what happens? The body has to make a choice. Yeah. The body makes a choice. Are we going to keep going and provide a fuel to the brain? Okay. Or are we going to shut down metabolic function so that we can triage that?

And the reality is the body's going to survive, but it's not going to look pretty. And one of the things I coach my patients when they are in high times of demand  is eat as good as you can, because if you have foundational nutritional deficiencies at the cellular level, That's an incredibly stressful situation for the body.

So the easiest thing to do in times of stress is eat. And I'm not saying it's easy, but to be deficient of critical nutritional aspects  on top of having those demands, it just makes it, that's where disease shows up. Okay. So,  and, and I, there's a whole thing I could do on mama trauma because once a mother is born, uh, there is a profound shift in the primitive brain,  but being a mom is, a full time job.

So is being a business person. So is being a,  influencer, all this stuff. There is a concept where the body will have to compromise potentially longevity, compromise immune function, compromise weight and metabolic burn so that it will survive. So we just have to have a real honest question. Is this the scenario for health and well being and what do we want for the long game?

Okay, because I know you want to be around for great grandchildren, right?  So there may be some real honest conversations one has to have as to what are the priorities.

Yeah.  I want to debunk and go more into that. You have to provide your body with nutrition when you are going through stressful periods.

And  for a lot of my clients,  the nutrition looks like not eating all day, skipping breakfast, maybe eating , some sort of treats and the, from the break room during lunch. And then eating a very big dinner, which is normally a take out. So,  we are talking about high sodium, high sugar, processed meals, same thing with the lunch and snacks.

That's what they're consuming. You know, a lot of people, and I understand  it has to do with the practicality of the life. Although I say, Oh, you have to prioritize. What you're putting inside your, body, but , is that nutritious food? 

No, 

73 percent of the American food system is toxic waste that will shorten your life if you routinely eat it. 

Okay. Ultra processed food will kill you early and will precipitate disease. And 73 percent of what people can choose in the United States will, is ultra processed. That's a horrifying statistics. It is. The reality is it's not the chemistry that will run the metabolism. 

Okay. Let's talk about metabolism a little more.

Sure. Sure. Sure. I mean, our ancestors evolved eating plant.  They ate that which didn't run away from them, which was predominantly plant, small games, nuts, bugs, fish, always very easily accessible, proteins. And then if they had friends, they would hunt, right? So the predominant it was the hunter. It was the gatherer who saved the hunter many, many, many, many days.

And so when I look at the biochemistry of the body. And what the foundational function is, it's plant, it's plant nutrients. That's why an elephant.  is as big as it is. It's a vegetarian, right? It has enough, it eats a lot of plant, but it, that plant is the missing biochemistry that I think is critically gone in our society.

Second to that is protein. And you don't find much of that in the ultra processed food. You find not only a deficiency in those critical nutrients, You find toxic nutrients that are actually disrupting  the metabolism as well. These chemical pathways, these, I call them assembly lines, these chemical assembly lines.

And it's kind of like trying to bake a cake with half the ingredients or, or the wrong ingredients. You're not going to get the output that is designed by the recipe. Right. And I think of the metabolism as chemical assembly lines. And the reality is we have not had adequate  parts on that assembly line for thousands of years.

But the last hundred has been catastrophic. And if I can just get people to eat more plant nutrients, plant volume, it's amazing how it shifts the metabolic function and improves it greatly.  

I always recommend  my clients that when you build your plate, whatever, like meal or snack, start with the vegetables first.

So, put, vegetables on half of your plate.  And then you can build your meal around it. Then the second should be your protein, which is either, animal based or plant based protein, and then you go, for the healthy fats. So,  that's a great insight. I want to talk to you about weight loss a little bit, because we are talking about obesity and obesity and weight loss are directly related.

You would agree. So the. approach that we normally take is exercise more and eat less. And that is putting us into this,  calorie deficit, which, hey, that is required for weight loss, but not always. That I believe is a misconception and, and I really want to dig deep into that with you.  What's happening when we stay in that deficit for a long period of time?

Well, I don't believe. necessarily that a deficit is required because I don't think calories are what counts. I think it's chemistry that counts.  I think calorie is a very  kind of it's the wrong conversation because The  250 calorie donut is not the same as the 250 calorie broccoli or chicken breast.

Completely different chemistries, right? And what I find is when I can get people to eat more of the chemistries they need, their body loses weight as a byproduct because I'm like fueling the furnace better, right? Um, so the calorie conversation has been an illusion that was created probably by Wall Street to make all calories the same.

But to be honest, many of the calories that are being put out there are toxic. I can increase your weight with zero calories. All I have to do is shoot you with insulin or shoot you with cortisol that has nothing to do with calories But it has everything to alter the biochemistry of the body and the survival mechanisms of the body, right?

So I think the illusion and what we have to start talking to medical practitioners about is it's not calories It is really the chemistry and to be honest many of the medications that I've been dispensing for the last 32 years have actually increased weight  Why? Because they've told the body to store and everybody's deficient.

So on top of that survival of deficiency, the body has gone into this massive survival. One of which, one survival mechanism is hunger.  Hunger is a, just like thirst, where the body, the cellular structure is sending a message to the brain that And telling it to go eat. But when the primitive man had that urge, it was a leaf he grabbed.

It wasn't the vending machine that is poison.  And the other thing is, even our healthy foods are processed today. Many of the, you know, the, uh, you know, healthy protein bars and all this other stuff is still processed. And one of the things I'm most concerned of as a chemistry expert is You know, a lot of these healthy products are subsidized with B12, which has cyanide in it, and people are eating so much of that.

They're actually. Exceeding their daily recommended for this poison cyanide because it's in this vitamin, right? And that completely disrupts metabolism, but nobody's really saying that they're just being marketed to that You know, this is healthy and it's incorrect Uh, the healthiest foods have no marketing strategy.

That's your broccoli and your vegetables and and your herbs and your protein and Those aren't going to have labels on them per se, and they're not going to be found for the most part in a vending machine. So I, with my clients. The hard part is not what to eat, the hard part is how to find what to eat, how to get it to show up in your day, how to have it,  as an option on your plate so that you will eat it, how to clean out the pantry so that what's in the pantry is supportive and not toxic.

So those are the kind of strategies, and I'm sure you help with your clients too, to try to make it easy  to get the nutrients that we actually need. 

 I want to underscore what you just mentioned that, injecting someone with insulin or let's say cortisol hormone, which you don't want, but let's stress the sake of, you know, conversation because you are changing the biochemistry of your body or changing the physiology of the body.

I talk about physiology a lot as a physiologist. So, What happens is like, with that, we are triggering a state which is often referred to as survival mode,  because your body is in this fight or flight, mode or response, it's responding to a threat, and it starts to conserve energy, and it slows down your metabolism, rather than revving it up.

It's doing the opposite effect because your metabolism and digestion are activated when you have the parasympathetic nervous system activated, which is your rest and digest system, we call it.  So you're not stressed out. You're not trying to run away from a meeting. You're not running to the next practice for your kids.

That's not what's happening. So it's counter to what we are trying to achieve, weight loss, and then excessive stress. So that's what makes it harder to lose weight. And then it also leads to feeling of fatigue. And I want to also discuss the other end of the equation. Which is the amount of energy that your body is producing.

So your mitochondria are the cells within your body, which I call them like the powerhouses. They are responsible for producing energy that fuel everything for you from thinking to moving to just simply like breathing and staying alive. So everything is dependent on these small powerhouses, small cells called mitochondria.

So there are batteries that power each of your cells,  and they produce this energy in the form of adenosine triphosphate. And what's happening is the modern lifestyle we have. It's requiring a lot of energy from you, but the food that you're consuming is very energy deficient.

Yeah, it lacks the chemicals necessary to produce the ATP.

They say you have to produce your body weight in that molecule every day. And you cannot eat it. You have to actually manufacture it within your cells.  And, you know, one other piece of that, the chemical, I think it's 20 to 30 different chemical reactions to get to the ATP. 

Yes.  

That's where the food comes from.

That's what the chemistry of food is. You must eat it. You must digest it. You must break it down. You must assimilate it, absorb it, and then utilize it. And there's so many places that that's getting disrupted, the first of which we're not even acquiring the food, but then we're not digesting well. We've got a lot of drugs that impact that.

 Like I said, B12 in a cyanide form completely disrupts that. The manufacturing of ATP on those assembly lines, right?  The other little thing that I think you would find interesting, if you don't know, this was kind of a shock to me. Every molecule of ATP requires 13 atoms of oxygen, okay? So if you are not circulating oxygen deep into those cellular, manufacturing sites,  You are not able to manufacture the ATP.

So oxygen, the reason to move and the reason to exercise, which our ancestors never did, by the way, they always just moved to live. Yeah. The reason it was hard, it was part of their life. Yes. Eight hours a day. They had to move to actually generate enough food to keep going. Right. 

Our ancestors walked eight miles a 

day.

Yeah. Yeah. 

And they didn't run very often unless they had to chase something or not get eaten. You know, that was the thing, but they, and that's that high intensity that we're able to, to bolt. But the, the, I call it hunt and gather zone two movement. is critical for contracting muscles, getting warm, vasodilating, and driving oxygen into that cell.

So I have a lot of people in my pharmacy that I see that have limited mobility. And one of the biggest issues with limited mobility is lack of muscle contraction to deliver oxygen. The heart was never designed to be the only, pump of oxygen. Never, never, never, never. And I think that's a critical piece that many people don't recognize and it doesn't have to look like the gym.

It just has to look like movement. And I think that's a, a nuance that medicine hasn't quite been able to coach people in that you don't have to be a gym rat. You do have to move though. And we know that from the blue zones too, that the people that live to be 100 universally don't exercise, but they move every 20 minutes. 

And I think the more fun you have, the better. And that is a critical piece in actually That's why people who start to exercise feel better, I think. Because they're actually circulating more oxygen. 

 Yeah. And then deep breathing also, um, plays a big role. So, you know, that's something to, remember as well.

Yeah. 

And there was also a study I just listened to about recirculating, carbon dioxide. So often we're in rooms that have no windows. And as carbon dioxide levels went up, cognition went down. So a lot of schools who have no windows anymore, you see this, um, downward trend of cognitive function in Children.

And I wonder if just open the window can make a big difference in that. And I think the research is heading that way. Oxygen is important. 

Yes, very much, very much important. And not only just for your muscles, but for your brain as well.  Okay. So yeah, movement is key though. Movement will get more oxygen flowing.

I want to wrap this up with some tips for our listeners. As in, how can they have more nutrient dense diet?  we just touched upon the movement that every 20 minutes move around for five. That's what I do. Recommend to and it could be just marching in place like if you're at your office or a desktop just You know, march in place for five minutes, maybe do ten squats, , every other, round.

I don't know. I mean, whatever you'd like to do. Uh, maybe hold a plank for two minutes. I 

like to sit to stands. Uh, and you got to realize often I have people who have been in bed for six months, so we've got to rehabilitate them very gently. And just sit to stands every hour, do 10 sit to stands every hour.

I also have a rehabilitation that I call my shopping cart rehab, which is going to the grocery store and, and getting the shopping cart and walking.  Especially some of the big box places where you have, you can go very early and they're not very crowded. And I think those less intimidated by that.

I think the other thing I want to bring forth is I'm a wellness pharmacist. And 7 out of 10 Americans are taking a medication that by design alters their metabolic function. Okay, so it is  interesting time that we are putting more chemistries in our body and having less expertise to help manage that.

So as a pharmacist, I felt it was compelled that I help people with supplements. I help people with medications, not just get the benefits.  But make sure that they don't have the negative impacts of medication. And there is very rarely that there is not both sides of that coin with regard to medications.

So I think it's critical that people have a partnership  and a very strong health team to help them navigate the different parts of their health. And what's changed in healthcare is that The consumer has the information. They are the center of their team, and I just am compelled that if any, any chemistry is going into a individual that they have a pharmacist, uh, in a partnership, a therapeutic partnership with them. 

 Yeah. No, I appreciate that.  And as far as, , nutrition is concerned, I'm just gonna, uh, throw in a few of the tips. Eat complex carbohydrates, and I do talk about it often on my podcast, so you can refer back to some of our episodes here.  But in just simple terms, eating more plant based, food items, which especially, like, Dark leafy greens, we are talking about spinach, kale,  brussels sprouts, broccoli, especially the broccoli family is really, really good.

It's packed with phytonutrients and cauliflower, broccolini has even more dense nutrient profile than full grown broccoli. , so you know, if, you know, I love broccolini. I love broccoli too, but broccolini rocks. So try that. , beans and legumes. Those are also good. Seeds, nuts. Those are great snacks to have and then pair it up with some form of protein for me like Greek yogurt is a go to.

 I'm actually going to have one right after the call today because I left it outside on my countertop.  Or you can have a protein shake. I love whey protein. Everybody doesn't do well on whey, but hey, you can experiment a little.  You can also go for bone broths. I, I'm a big fan of bone broths.

So you have tons of options. And then seafood, as,  Kathy mentioned earlier, that's what our ancestors, when they were looking for protein sources, mostly they were going for seafood, as fish.  Yeah, and it's, it has really high,  omega 3, good fatty acid content, which you want in your body. So those are good things to go for. 

Most of my listeners are busy professionals, so that's why when I  think of the movement snacks, it's like in an office setting or in a home office setting. So,  if you're a busy professional and you're really cramped for time to plan your food,  maybe set aside like a couple of hours.  over the weekend to meal planning, , or cook most of it.

Not if not all of it. I'm not a big proponent of cooking all of it because then it loses freshness and it gets boring. Cook most of it. Prep your veggies on the weekend and then the night before, pack your food. and then take it with you. Pack  food for the kids and, you know, they can take it for lunch.

So not only are you setting yourself up for success, not only are you setting yourself up for health and well being, you're also doing it for your family that way. So Kathy, this was great. Where can our listeners and viewers find you? 

Well, you feel free to reach out to my website, drkathysays.  com. , I'm also on Instagram at Kathy at Dr.

Kathy Says. So. Feel free to holler at me. I've  you know, like I said, I've got a TED talk. I've got my book I actually have a great recipe for a Spicy rotisserie chicken soup that is a, I consider it therapeutic. It's therapeutic. I created it when COVID hit and we knew chicken soup was effective against virus and it's been unbelievable to help people get those critical nutrients in.

And the reality is we got to eat a heck of a lot of the right stuff to have this machine work.  

Absolutely. Thank you so much for emphasizing that. And check out Kathy's book. It's actually named, the episode today is named after Kathy's book. It's Obesity, the Modern Famine.  And she talks about great stuff.

It's available on Amazon and check out her TED talk too. It's amazing. We talked about a lot of stuff today that was in the TED talk, but if you want to just view the TED talk. Go ahead and do it and share with your family and friends, too. So thank you so much, everyone, for listening to us. And Kathy, thank you again for taking the time out of your busy day and, you know, just sharing your wisdom with us.

Thank you, Ayesha. Appreciate that. 

Thank you, everyone. Bye. 

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